“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“A Republic, if you can keep it.”
Benjamin Franklin in response to a query as he left Independence Hall on the final day of the Constitutional Convention.
Well, the Detainee Bill has passed. I had intended to dip into the vault for my next post and write about Social Security reform, but Shellshocked brought up some good points in the comments that I had intentionally, if reluctantly, left out. Upon reflection the topic is too important to let go.
Here's an interesting tidbit that I came across in reading about the Founding Fathers, who had a keen sense of history and the fragile nature of democracies. John Adams, of all of them, was most sanguine about the longevity of the American Experiment. At his most hopeful (his mood varied) he gave it 150 years before it became unrecognizably corrupt. For those of you keeping track, that would have been in the 1930's, but let's give ourselves the benefit of the doubt.
As it turns out a number of the Founding Fathers were witness to the first stages of decay in their own lifetimes. The next generation of politicians and leaders, reared in the aftermath of the Revolution, already showed signs of having forgotten the lessons that had been so self-evident to the Founding Fathers. It's not surprising, and I don't think it was to Adams, Jefferson and the rest, but I'm sure it was disappointing all the same.
What does this have to do with the Detainee Bill? Well, there are a few other provisions I didn't mention that are fairly difficult to swallow. The big one is the suspension of Habeas Corpus for certain individuals. From Wikipedia:
A writ of habeas corpus is a court order addressed to a prison official (or other custodian) ordering that a detainee be brought to the court so it can be determined whether or not that person is imprisoned lawfully and whether or not he or she should be released from custody. The writ of habeas corpus in common law countries is an important instrument for the safeguarding of individual freedom against arbitrary state action. (emphasis mine)The Founding Fathers (FF) felt pretty strongly about this. 'Arbitrary state action', in the person of an executive, whether the President or a King, was something they were especially wary about. There had been plenty of it under the British kings, and ultimately that's why we don't have a monarchy ourselves. The FF had passionate disagreements over just how powerful to make the Executive branch, with one faction wanting an extremely weak one. Habeas Corpus was meant to be a safeguard against the excesses of an Executive run amok.
The Detainee Bill allows the President wider prerogatives than is being reported. Glenn Greenwald, a First Amendment lawyer and excellent blogger on legal issues, sums it up nicely:
Opponents of this bill have focused most of their attention -- understandably and appropriately -- on the way in which it authorizes the use of interrogation techniques which, as this excellent NYT Editorial put it, "normal people consider torture," along with the power it vests in the President to detain indefinitely, and with no need to bring charges, all foreign nationals and even legal resident aliens within the U.S. But as Law Professors Marty Lederman and Bruce Ackerman each point out, many of the extraordinary powers vested in the President by this bill also apply to U.S. citizens, on U.S. soil.How do they do this? By suspending Habeas Corpus, and also by restricting the right of the courts to review the process. The Executive branch will be able to, at its discretion, declare you an enemy combatant, a decision it won't have to defend or explain. It will then be able to hold you indefinitely without trial, during which time whatever procedures the President deems to be only 'minor' breaches of the Geneva Conventions can be used against you. No oversight. No accountability. Basically, it's just 'Trust me.' The arguments against this are legion, and I don't think I need to enumerate all of them. The FF would never have given this sort of unfettered power to the President; they were not ones to trust to the gentle nature of man. In reading through the Federalist Papers I am struck by the persistent theme of pragmatic cynicism that runs through them. This is precisely the sort of situation that led some to argue for a weak Executive in the first place.
As Ackerman put it: "The compromise legislation, which is racing toward the White House, authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights." Similarly, Lederman explains: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."
Some, perhaps, are hoping that this will be challenged in the courts, and perhaps it will be. But a challenge does not ensure a repeal, and in this case, on 2 of the 3 offensive elements (Habeas Corpus and Judicial Review), there are good reasons to believe they are supported by the constitution:
On the Habeas Corpus issue, the Constitution is regrettably clear-cut. Article I, s.9:While the Court may review the issue of whether the President can reinterpret the Geneva Conventions (it may be unconstitutional), the other two provisions are likely out of the Court's jurisdiction. Beyond that, you have practical issues due to the ideological tilt of the court. Matt Yglesias (referenced above) notes that the courts generally defer to the Executive branch on issues of National Security (the rubric under which this is all being put forth), and that in particular, with this set of conservative judges, there's no guarantee that they would rule against these items even if they thought they had jurisdiction. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I'm not holding out for that.The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Congress has the power, therefore, to suspend the Writ.... The jurisdiction-stripping issue is more complicated... the basic summary is that Matt is correct that there is a strong Constitutional basis for Congress' actions.
So, where does this leave us? I have to say, we aren't tending to Franklin's Republic very well. At the risk of sounding alarmist about this, I'm going to bring up the F-word: Fascism. Stick with me now, I know that sounds over the top. It can't happen here, you say. Well, Sinclair Lewis wrote a book of the same name, a political satire that shows just how such a thing could happen, here. He said, famously, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." I have seen this quote repeated numerous times in regards to this situation in the last week, most recently in the comments of my previous post. To be fair, the issue is neither patriotism nor religious belief, per se, but the blind obedience to a leader that can sometimes arise from either, and so I think the quote is apt. Let's see what Wikipedia has to say about a definition for Fascism:
A recent definition is that by former Columbia University Professor Robert O. Paxton:There's a lot more in the article and they note that definitions for fascism are "complicated and contentious". Still, the above definition serves as a pretty good working one and we can see some obvious parallels with where we are today. The President and his political allies routinely describe the threat of terrorism as being of equal or greater significance than any conflict we have faced in the past. The War on Terror is one that is so epic that we must rethink our deepest held beliefs - "9/11 changed everything." I think points 1 through 4 can be safely said to apply, to a greater or lesser extent. If we don't quite meet all the requirements, or don't meet them all fully - if we are entering fascism-lite rather than full-blown Fascism - is beside the point to me. That America should find itself in a position where any comparisons can be drawn, where the question can even be entertained, is cause for deep concern. Once started down that road it's not so easy to turn back.
* "Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."
Paxton further defines fascism's essence as:
* "1. a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions; 2. belief one’s group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits; 3. need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts; 4. right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint; 5. fear of foreign `contamination."
This is difficult to accept; it seems too outlandish. I think it's important to realize that fascism can take many forms, some more overt, some less so. It doesn't always arrive in jackboots. I think it's arguable that we are entering fascism-lite, rather than hard fascism. As such, it's probable that many people will see little effect in their lives. That hardly matters; it's not a principled argument. You look to our own history and we have had our dalliances before, most recently in the '50s with McCarthyism. Not everyone was affected by it, but those who were were harmed greatly. It was and remains a shameful abrogation of our core beliefs. I can only hope that this too will pass. My honest fear is that there is a significant chance it won't and, in purely personal terms, I found this to be quite disturbing:
As we ponder how this torture legislation might develop in the future, it's probably a good idea to check out how the intelligence community of the United States sees the threat of terrorism developing in the future. From the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate):No mention of rightist groups, which actually have attacked US interests, using terrorist tactics. I'm speaking of Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph. No, it's the leftists to worry about, though. I'm a liberal, and I'm using the internet to communicate (not so anonymously) with you right now. You might think that it's quite a leap from that line in the NIE to being dragged off myself. It is, until this sort of thing becomes a little more prevalent and mainstream (the context is that the NY Times had printed photos of Donald Rumsfeld's vacation house. The publication of these photos had been given the OK by Rumsfeld and [more importantly, perhaps] the Secret Service, but that fact was glossed over. Radical conservative David Horowitz took issue with these photos being published, ostensibly exposing the Secretary to personal terrorist threats):Anti-US and anti-globalization sentiment is on the rise and fueling other radical ideologies. This could prompt some leftist, nationalist, or separatist groups to adopt terrorist methods to attack US interests. The radicalization process is occurring more quickly, more widely, and more anonymously in the Internet age.
This was about beating the drum to eliminate the enemy. Horowitz set the rhythm:(Emphasis is mine. This is a relatively tame example. Dave Neiwert, linked above, blogs about hate speech and hate groups at Orcinus.) Just to be clear, the position here is that the NY Times, as the flagship of the liberal (Democratic) war on America, ought to be burned to the ground, as would have been done in better times. I intend to write a post eventually about the demonization of liberals and the very word itself, but this will have to suffice for now.Make no mistake about it, there is a war going on in this country. The aggressors in this war are Democrats, liberals and leftists who began a scorched earth campaign against President Bush before the initiation of hostilities in Iraq.And pretty soon everyone else joined in, including commenters like this:...since we've so civilized ourselves that it's highly unlikely that an angry mob with torches will show up on the NYT's doorstep.
Pity, that.
Perhaps an outside viewpoint will prove more compelling? I came across a discussion with a Ugandan who had emigrated to Canada. He had grown up during the time that Idi Amin rose to power in Uganda and he had an interesting perspective on what is occurring now in America. I would encourage you to read the whole thing. I found this quote, based on his experiences with an authoritarian regime, particularly telling:
My experience tells me this. I don't really know. But if I had to guess, I would guess that your government is doing the worst things you can possibly imagine. Liars are lying because they cannot tell the truth... I feel for you really. Because I don't think you have any idea how far down the road you already are.In the end I think I can perhaps sum it up using a rule a friend related to me once: the Cynic's Law of Conservation:
"1 ton sewage + 1 tsp wine = 1 ton sewageIn America, a little Fascism means it's not America anymore. To me it's not a question of whether we are too much like a fascist or dictatorial state. We should never have anything in common with either. This is another debate that should never even arise in America. In America, it should always be crystal clear; any such comparison should be laughable. We haven't been giving Mr. Franklin's Republic wine, of late, and I think we'll find she's ailing because of it.
1 ton wine + 1 tsp sewage = 1 ton sewage"
15 comments:
This post was on What and How. I felt that some of the Why would take away from the coherence of the post, so I'm giving it here.
Given the momentous nature of this legislation, you'd think that Congress would take some time deliberating on it. Instead it was rushed to vote in a week, and on the day of the vote, only 10 hours of debate were allowed. Three amendments were offered by the Democrats:
1) Byrd/Obama: sunset the military tribunals after 5 years, unless renewed
2) Rockefeller: CIA provides information to Intelligence committees on the interrogation program
3) Kennedy: inhumane interrogation tactics prohibited in the Army Field Manual would not be usable on anyone, including Americans
These were all defeated, on largely party-line votes. Sen. Specter (R-PA) co-sponsored an amendment with Sen. Feingold (D-WI), to restore Habeas Corpus rights. This was also defeated along largely party lines.
These all seem pretty reasonable amendments in light of the radical nature of this bill. The only purpose to defeating them is politics. Presumably, if the amendments had passed, the bill would have garnered more Democratic votes, and Republicans would have been denied a cudgel to use against their opponents in the election campaign. Similarly, that's why the bill was rushed. Congress ended its session the next day.
And, in fact, they started using the cudgel immediately, labelling Democrats as soft on terror and weak on security. From the Washington Post:
Republicans, especially in the House, plan to use the military commission and wiretapping legislation as a one-two punch against Democrats this fall. The legislative action prompted extraordinarily blunt language from House GOP leaders, foreshadowing a major theme for the campaign. Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) issued a written statement on Wednesday declaring: "Democrat Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and 159 of her Democrat colleagues voted today in favor of MORE rights for terrorists."
If you want to see the train wreck in slow motion, Glenn Greenwald blogged the debate as he watched it. It's pretty long though. Here's a tidbit from the end:
During the debate on his amendment, Arlen Specter said that the bill sends us back 900 years because it denies habeas corpus protections. Then he voted for it.
Wow. How depressing. I think the feeling I've had for the last year of helplessness in watching our way of life slipping away was just thrown short of despair.
Nice post, though. I'll have to read it again when I'm not so vulnerable (ugh the amendments).
Another detail in the bill that I caught today which made me think of Mickey with his brooms carrying water: the president can appoint whomever he wants and give them the same powers he's been given to declare "enemy combatants" and define torture, etc.
It's the great leap forward.
So, how tightly are our hands tied? Can a new congress really make it all better?
For another listy definition of fascism see the numbered items in this article a german friend sent:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm
...it looks at the regimes of "Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia" and shows the straps that bound them together. Fascism also means Corporatism.
thanks again, dMac. It helps.
Bush: "As our troops risk their lives to fight terrorism, this bill will ensure they are prepared to defeat today's enemies and address tomorrow's threats"
from your Washington Post link, dMac.
This is sooooo headspinning on so many levels.
First, the bill is REALLY about (and I know I'm being jaded in the extreme here, umm, no I'm not) is protecting from prosecution Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and those pesky contractor interrogators, from PAST abuses.
Second the bill will most likely put our troops in more danger as it gives any country or entity who captures them a green light to torture (without bounds), try and incarcerate our soldiers without our having any recourse or argument (short of invading to retrieve them). We've lost that right in the eyes of so many.
Third, if ostensibly we are fighting to protect our freedoms and liberties, and as we are told these are the very things that the terrorists "hate" , then it's a huge joke on them cause we just removed any reason they had to hate us. We win! How very clever!
Ahhhh, so much to say. D-Mac and I try to sort through this stuff almost every night, and still so little of it makes any sense. How can this party of radical agenda continue to call itself "conservative"? How could this shocking decision get made in such great haste that it barely had time to make the news? Why didn't I see it mentioned in CNN.com's top 3 headlines even once last week? How can I possibly feel so powerless when I have exercised my every democratic right to uphold my values? I doubt that a majority of us voted for the opportunity to become pawns in this very dangerous international political game, yet here we are.
Moreover, how is it possible that there was a loud rumble of "impeachment" for high crimes only a few weeks or months ago, and yet now it becomes possible to merely legalize the would-be crimes to absolve the would-be criminals? None of this feels right at all....
There seems to be a depressed attitude about the recent events. Sometimes it is encouraging to review past history (e.g., U.S. history) and observe that many difficult situations were faced in the past. The world is screwed up, no doubt about it, and has been for a long time. Reading your thoughts, you all sound kind of apocalyptic, like it's the end of America and the world. Maybe it is. Certainly the end seemed imminent many times in the past too, though, and it didn't happen. This can be cause for some hope.
Like some others here, I grew up in the Cold War and had nightmares about the A-Bomb going off and the Soviets wiping us out. Didn't that seem like the end of the world? But then the Iron Curtain fell, and I was sure surprised.
I agree that the Habeas Corpus stuff is really alarming. But I wonder: are there situations in past U.S. history where the Bill of Rights was similarly wrenched? What about 5th column in WW2 or Red Scare in the 50's? (D-Mac touched on McCarthyism a bit.) I'd be interested in more historical background, on what America has done in time of national stress in the past.
Sorry that kind of rambled.
Boanerges, this is a perfectly valid point. We have weathered a number of major political crises in the past - the Civil War, for one. That victory was hardly a foregone conclusion, though. If the current situation does compare to prior times of difficulty of such magnitude, then it indicates the level of effort required to resolve it. In times past when the pendulum has swung too far in one direction, it has ultimately swung back - but NOT of its own accord! It needs to be pushed, and that's part of why we are talking about this now. But even if we can push it back, we are likely to live with this bill for some years - perhaps much of our adult lives.
I will confess that there is an overarching theme to my blog, one of grave concern. The difficulty in starting it is that I have many things that I wish to write about, which are deeply interrelated, but I can only write about them so fast. One of the things that concerns me in this current crisis is that some of the mechanisms and institutions that we have relied on in the past to get us through these crises are in poor condition from neglect or determined efforts to degrade them. To go into these issues at the level I feel necessary involves posts all on their own. They will come as I can get to them.
No, this isn't necessarily the end of the Republic, but if that's to be the case, we have to find ways to push back. We have to be persistent, maintain hope and be willing to make sacrifices. This is how all progress has been made in the past - look at Martin Luther King, Jr.
Boanerges, it's important to be apoplectic and apocalyptic otherwise we'll slip into whateverville quickly. We have "faced them in the past. That means we have to face them now. Not relax and ride it out. Though you might live longer if you do.
I think I might be down because I see IT happening (or at least I think I do) but don't really know yet how I could possibly do anything to stop IT. I barely get to listen to the BBC and read anything in a day. I can't follow most of what D-mac has put in front of us and sometimes I think it's a total spectator sport for most of us. Maybe it's the unknown unknowns that make me anxious for me and my family and our collective future.
Perhaps it's a matter of too much information. Double-edged sword, this internet. We can know more about shennanigans sooner and in more detail and the politicians and corporations, everyone, can play the media and its news cycles and us and create the reality they want. We probably don't have any more power than before to change it. Or do we? We don't know, because we are in a new world here. Blogging with our family about things that we might have in the past discussed while tending our sheep or clubbing mammoths.
Are we powerless, helpless? Maybe, but knowledge is power and we have new tools that have yet to be tested in crises of this magnitude. What would it have been like if the Japanese internment camps happened in the age of real time news?
So you track down the truth, if it even exists. If you do, so what? Okay, I'll vote them out of office. Does your vote count if the voting machines belong to a corporation known to have fiddled with the machines in the past? If after standing in line to vote for 10 hours you are told you are on the felons list and can't vote, will you stand again next time? It's overwhelming isn't it? And depressing, really.
(admitting total historical ignorance maybe this is the short answer to your question: I don't think there have ever been the number of outside threats and inside threats to our national security as there are now. Our leadership, however, is telling us that there's nothing wrong except for this terrorism thing (which they are only making worse), that no one need sacrifice, and that, essentially, we've got you covered. Just keep shopping.)
Who has the time to keep up? That is a good way to pull the wool over people's eyes. Just keep them distracted either with three jobs or with junk news or in the case of this administration with publicly financed propaganda News...
Paying pundits
and
Producing Fake Reports
and hope they don't hear about anything unseemly anywhere near an election. Oh, and don't forget to make it illegal to have proof that your vote was cast at the voting booth...sorry, boanerges, you thought you rambled.
I guess I'm sort of reacting more to odawg's dismay with CNN. The press in this country is broken. There are pockets that are now fighting back and there's hope there. But It's not been doing its job (it probably can no longer) and the administration knows this. Six families own virtually all media consumed in this country. It's like when the car companies bought up all the streetcar companies in the country only to tear up the tracks and force everyone to buy their own transportation.
Our access to something we've taken for granted (not that news has never been manipulated to cause hysteria and mold the national mindset) is being destroyed. The truth has always been manipulated and we have been in pretty similar and dire situations as D-mac points out. But there was always wiggle room. And there were always people fighting it. Facing it.
Now, the people fighting IT are in danger of being arrested and never heard from again. This is new. That these action cannot be reviewed by congress let alone the media or us. No one is accountable. Even the Republicans in congress who made noises (McCain for instance) were deemed "dissidents" by the press. It's something to take seriously and not with a "I've never done anything before so they won't bother me." It's the creep of empty nationalism and paranoia that will eat our public discourse and make us vulnerable to more lies. The wiggle room seems to be shrinking to me.
We need to be alarmist. It's unAmerican not to freak out over this. Otherwise the terrorists win.
Agreed on that last point, Shellshocked. There are apparently tens of thousands of people mistakenly put on terror watch lists! Including Ted Kennedy, who obviously has the clout to get himself removed. Yes, I've always thought that living our little lives would be no concern of anyone else's. But what if D-Mac were put on some such list for blogging? How many steps away are we from having a government that would watch his every step, or could even haul him away without explanation, for voicing his dissent? I've never in my life been concerned for even a moment that our government would have any reason to notice me, until the last couple of years when, for some reason, they have felt the need to start instituting Stalin-esque policies to "keep us safe". Now it's less clear what they are looking for or who they are looking at. Republicans used to say "government out of our lives and our business", but that is the opposite of what seems to be happening here.
"the last couple of years"
Detail: Actually the time frame here, at least for those warrantless wiretaps and emailtaps goes back to the beginning of 2001, before 9-11. That should tell us something of the real intentions here.
to boanerges. The reason this is different is because we're officially "for" what's universally considered wrong. This is what is new in our history. We might have been doing nastiness to our own and others but we at least had an intact code to which we Could Hold or leaders and others accountable. We can't even talk the talk anymore.
Before 9-11, really? I didn't even know that. And yet all that illegal spying didn't prevent the attacks.
Here's some info on that. NSA wiretapdance.
Boanerges, I feel like I didn't really address your request for historical perspective, and I wish I could. My US history is pretty hazy at this point (big picture isn't so bad, but the details get glossed over). I have been reading Howard Zinn's "A People's History of The United States". It's a fascinating look at our history from the point of view of the little guy, who has not typically had a voice in the histories. I'm about halfway through, and one thing that I can say is that the average citizen is in a much better place than they were at the start of the nation. Some of the struggles for improvements, which aren't associated with obvious national crises like the Civil War or the Depression, took many decades of concerted effort. You look at labor rights for instance. The fight for the 40 hour week and decent wages and safe work environments started back in the 1800s. The number of times the National Guard was called out to suppress strikes, often firing into crowds indiscriminately, is surprising. I recall nothing of this from my high school history classes... My point though, is actually a hopeful one. For all that the struggle took a long time, and may have been brutally hard, it was successful. So we just have to keep struggling.
Which brings me to Shellshocked's question, are we helpless? I don't think so. It just takes a while. I read Ralph Reed's "Active Faith"; it was a very interesting account of how the Religious Right patiently and doggedly pursued gaining a voice in the Republican party. Any party tends to resist grassroots takeovers; that's going on in the Democratic party right now, with entrenched career types resisting the 'netroots'. I have to confess, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to make the sorts of sacrifices that others have made before, but that may not be necessary.
As far as habeas corpus and torture go, I'm planning to bring it up in any correspondence I have with my elected officials on other issues: "By the way, restore Habeas Corpus and repeal the Detainee bill too, while your at it."
If there is anyone with a greater grasp of history who would like to add some perspective, please do!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/washington/13protest.html
Recently revealed documents show a huge database of AntiWar protests where the label "potential terrorist activity” seems to be used indiscriminately. This is why this latest bill is dangerous. With knowledge of these abuses can only come the squelching of any dissent to the regime in power. Some people will begin to think again before voicing their opposition.
Not sure if this goes with this thread or the other. Heard it this morning on NPR. The parallels to what is happening here are chilling. It's a translation of the murdered Russian journalist's last story. Perhaps the one that spelled her death.
Anna Politkovskaya's last story..."
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